Saturday, February 23, 2008

When gun grabbers run.

Some people can be debated with quite well, regardless of a difference in point of view, they are open to differing ideas, and willing to discuss them.

Badthing is one of those people. Though I do not agree with her, I love commenting on her posts, and I like to read her replies too.
One of her recent posts got a massive amount of replies, a lot of them from "awalk", a typical "I use big words, so I'm more credible than the next person" gun grabber.

So, at the end of over 170 responses, she sais:

  • have a feeling this thread has seen its day. I do want to offer some advice.

    Keep pressure on not let them wiggle out. Stay on the topic of weapons...endlessly.

    Also frame the debate as a full topic covering weapons both large and small. Do not allow them to sink FURTHER into systemic causations making debate harder. The reason why systemic causations are so deadly is that they are hard to address! So when they give very weak causations, drive them back into a debate covering a wide range of weapons.

    They will endlessly - ENDLESSLY- seek to run for weaker causations….so just framing the debate might take DAYS….heck, weeks. Once they have accepted your frame……fire at will at targets in the open.

    Also frame your debate in terms of freedom and rights. For example, arms control is an embrace of the citizen’s right to address their tools when the tools are a method of harm.

    They will eventually break and come out with some of the most freakish things on this planet.

    Also pro-gun supporters often debate in a very structured manner(think armored tank) They endlessly use the same terminology and the same jingoisms, so to speak. For example, how many times have you heard, “guns don’t kill…people kill” or a similar phrase?

    Or the term "Law abiding?"

    New outlooks, terms or methods of debate really hinders their ability (think flexible fast tank killer) For example, the word “causation” really freaks them out. They have not come up with a collective jingoism to address “causation” as of yet. They basically do not know how to handle the term.

    What is a systemic causation?….read the book “Whose Freedom” If you get the book, you will understand the thinking of conservatives on a very fundamental level.

    Or you can email and I will send you a short rendering.

    Good day all……I am off to the wild blue.

    I likely will not be back....I just want to straighten a few things out...and defend a peson who I think is kind hearted.

    best wishes....peace always.

Selected reading:

  • Keep pressure on not let them wiggle out. (...) Good day all……I am off to the wild blue. I likely will not be back
This showcases two characteristics of her kind of "debater". She chickens out when confronted by a seasoned debater (me), after being called out on the factual correctness of her ramblings. She doesn't find the time to address a couple of simple question, but does manage to write a 344 word "goodbye note", and then accuses her adversairies of wiggling out. Hypocrisy at its best.

  • For example, the word “causation” really freaks them out.
When you don't actually have a point to make, use big words and hope the other side (who you all know are uneducated rednecks) will be intimidated.

This is what you're up against: bigoted people who look down upon you as uneducated, single minded fools who know nothing else but to repeat NRA mantras.


Felix Estrella said...

awalk is a "he". His name is Larry and he lives in Searcy AR. He posts under variations of awalk, awalkalongmingocreek, mingocreek, etc.

His belligerent debating style is well known. He likes to intimidate. His favourite tactic is the "causation" one. The setup is as follows:

* guns escalate to cannons which escalate to nuclear weapons.
* If you're OK with limiting civilian possession of nuclear weapons, walk down the ladder and consider why you're NOT opposed to the civilian possession of small arms.

He's approach will then be to create an inconsistency in his opponents argument.

It's actually a fairly common tactic but fails to appreciate that gun owners don't care about the ladder. We don't care about possession of nuclear weapons. We care only about possession and use of weapons available to the average infantryman.

Just setting the record straight. :-)

Yuri Orlov said...

He or she, I just wanted to slap him.

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